I have an auditorium ceiling cloud that moves 39 feet up and down and requires fire protection.
That is a new one
So how big is the actual room sq ft
What are the dimensions on the cloud??
And why?? for concerts or something to make them sound better?
The auditorium is approximately 6400 square feet total. There are 9 clouds over the seating area ranging in size from approximately 9' x 9' to one that is approximately 35' x 18'. These are not square but unique shapes. The panels move up and down for acoustical purposes from 43' down to 29'-6" and then can be lowered down to 4' for maintenance purposes. The panels are also wood finish combustible material.
I should have asked how are you involved??
How close to the ceiling sprinkler would could they ever be?
I am a sprinkler contractor
The clouds can be raised to within 2' of the ceiling
Ok looked at the new cloud talk, but that is to omit the sprinklers above clouds, which does not help you.
Sounds like a FPE needs to be involved and figure a solution everyone would agree upon.
With the amount of movement that can happen, not sure what that would be.
side walls would not help.
Not sure if use beam or smoke to retract them to a given height?, or lower them to a given height, but you still have an obstruction.
Require agreed upon openings in the clouds?
We have a meeting with designer, architect, and AHJ to discuss. I like the idea of automatically retracting to a set height if it is possible. Then since there are catwalks between each of the clouds, we might be able to use sidewalls under the fixed catwalks to cover the area if they retracted to that elevation. We have also discussed with Victaulic about custom flex hose reels. They have created them for a somewhat similar situation but the travel distance was much less.Still looking for any suggestions.
last two suggestions
try these people with the question:
Or post the question here, there are some good people here, you may have to wait for an answer::
I guess they cannot give 50 % opening??
I saw one suggestion, look at 22.19 and apply all the requirements, look at the appendix for that section.
But 22.19 also points you to NFPA 140, which I have not looked at.
Reading through 22.19, A question to your project would be how often do the panels need to be lowered?? Is it for just some performances, or is it say they will be lowered 75 % of the time?? As in can they be at ceiling level most of the time?? And can there be something in place, besides a human to make sure they are raised??
I reviewed 22.19 and see some possibilities, however, upgrading the entire system to EH2 would be a serious upgrade. NFPA 140 just refers back to NFPA 13 for installation of fire sprinklers.
The ceiling would normally be at the same elevation 90% of the time, but would vary from 43' down to 29'-6" for different events. It would only be lowered to 4' for maintenance. It is possible that it could be left at the level of the catwalks most of the time.
They cannot leave a 50% opening since they are acoustical in design.
Also suggested look at the 2016 edition of NFPA to see if the new cloud provisions apply to your situation.
I have not looked at them or had a class on them yet, so I am totally in the clouds
I read the new section in NFPA 13 2016 on clouds, and it focuses on allowing the omission of the sprinklers above the clouds in some situations but does not talk about the situation I have here. I appreciate you trying though!
That's right, anyway, been awhile since I looked at it.
Let me know the outcome!!
If it can be stored at ceiling level, and sprinkler protection could be provided in that configuration,
Than maybe some beam detectors at some level, to retract the clouds.
Or if the system is fancy enough, just lower one side of the cloud???? So it is a vertical position??
If the ceilings have not been ordered yet,
Maybe reduce the size to four feet squares or similar and set them up, so when they are lowered, they hook together to form one big one. And still require retraction, maybe not all, but enough to give fire/ heat a means to get to the sprinkler
or hit it with a San Antonio set up under the clouds:::
So what was the outcome???
Still waiting to find out. Our recommendation is to use sidewalks under the catwalks and limit the clouds so they never go below the heads. The State Fire Marshal is still reviewing it at this time.
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It is still not settled, however, I believe we have a solution, although not a cheap one! To make sure we have proper coverage at any time, we plan to install a deluge system with nozzles placed below the lowest point the ceiling will be set at (not counting maintenance level), and activate with a dry pilot system at the roof level. This way no matter where they set the ceiling clouds they will be covered and the system will activate. Again, this still has to be reviewed by our State Fire Marshal but we think it may be approved.
Will have to see pictures of that, if installed.
Not sure how there will be a line of sprinklers under the obstruction???
Plus if the obstruction is at the low level, it might slow the heat rise, to get to the pilot line??
Beams??? at a lower level, Just hope they do not use smoke or pyro!!!
The nozzles would be installed under the catwalks but dropped down to a level that is just below the lowest height the ceiling will be at during performances. I agree the clouds could affect the heat reaching the pilot lines to a degree, but there is a fair amount of space around them so it shouldn't be a huge impact. The clouds will not have any lights or electrical equipment connected to them either so that lessens the fire hazard starting in the cloud. They do not want to add electronic detectors at this time, thus the pilot lines.
Should have added how will they get the coverage?
""to one that is approximately 35' x 18'""
Anyway, let me know what finally "flies" will be interesting
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