Is there any code in 80 or 101 that would specify these 20 minute doors as being sufficient in a 1 hour barrier?
What is behind the door??
What is the room used for?
They're are 21 doors in the facility that are in question, all within the 1 hour barrier. The doors are to everything from patient holding areas, patient pre op, storage, clean linen, and offices.
101 18.104.22.168 states the ahj can accept construction of lesser fire resistance than required. Confusing!
I always believed a 1 hour barrier required a 45 minute opening protective.
Mark JohnsonMesa Facilities Services, LLC10923 Indian Trail, Suite 102Dallas, TX 75299
214-484-6587 Voice214-455-0130 Cell
Check page six might have your answer
Normally I want to say patient room doors and office at 20 min
storage an linen might be higher
when you say ambulatory describe
24 hour care?
day surgery ?
In there I don't see anything with a 20 minute requirement.
Check out NFPA 101 Table 22.214.171.124, not all 1 hour barriers require a 45 minute Door.
You did not state the year of construction and knowing that would be helpful as the answer can vary based upon the date of construction, whether or not the building is fully sprinklered, and whether or not there are any other tenants within the building.
If your building meets requirements to be classified as Existing Ambulatory Health Care, i.e. Chapter 21, there are no fire resistance rating requirements for corridor wall or doors, ref 21.3.6. In an existing building the requirement for rated walls and doors would typically be limited to: hazardous areas, stair enclosures, vertical shafts, smoke barriers, horizontal exits, occupancy separations, fire barriers or fire walls. It should also be noted that a smoke barrier in an existing building is required to be constructed with a 1-hr fire resistance rating, but may be protected with 1 3/4" solid bonded wood core doors or the equivalent, ref. 126.96.36.199(2). A 1 3/4" solid bonded wood core door is equivalent to a 20-minute rated fire door.
For new construction, under the 2012 edition of the LSC, exit access corridors and smoke barriers that do not meet the allowed exceptions in Chapter 38 must be constructed as 1-hr walls, but please note these walls are only required to be protected with 1/3-hr rated doors, ref Table 188.8.131.52 (page 90).
Glad to discuss further if you have additional questions.
Thank you to all for the valuable technical information and code knowledge. The construction was completed in 2000 and it is fully sprinklered. The 20 minute labeled doors with closers, frame gasket, and positive latching will suffice for this particular barrier.
Ambulatory as in day surgery, no individual patient rooms exist. There are large holding areas for recovery and pre op, (suites). The floor plans and legend clearly mark the 1 hour fire/smoke barrier, I would not think that the type of room behind the door would be of any significance. They are all self closing and latching, but labeled as 20 minutes. The 1 hour barrier is only as good as the opening protectives within it, right?
I do have code knowledge, but was hoping someone with extensive code experience would chime in and tell me what i'm missing here.
Day surgery building a little different.
The idea with 20 minute door in a one hour wall,
is is that there would be no combustibles against it.
So should be not a place of origin for a fire, and one starts, there would be no combustibles against the door that would contribute to the fire and degrade the door faster.
That is my explanation
The rating of the door assembly is often less than the required rating of the wall, because it is assumed the door will have a lower fuel load since no combustibles (e.g. furniture, storage, etc.) will be piled in front of the door. If a fire door is no longer needed, it should be removed and replaced with construction of the same rating as the wall to accommodate the potentially higher fuel load.
Questions about fire doors: Everything you always wanted to know | Construction Specifier
about the same, just a little different info::
Yes that's correct, all rated doors are of less rating than the barrier due to the absence of a fuel load.The doors im questioning are in a 1hour Fire barrier. The table shows 45min doors for 1hr barrier. I appreciate the replies
Not sure what happened to two posts
normal corridor wall is one hour
normal door for office or patient room is twenty minute in an one hour wall
when it is a storage room or linen room, and a few others, the door in the one hour wall might have s higher rating
If the door is part of the subdivision of building spaces per 21.3.7 and it part of a 1 hour fire/smoke barrier, then the door needs to be 20 minute labeled, positive latching, and self-closing (or if on a hold-open automatically close upon activation of the fire alarm. This is for doors that between the smoke compartments that do not lead to into or from hazardous space.
However, if the door leads into or from a hazardous space, such as a storage room, clean supply room, soiled room, et. then the door would be required to be a 45 minute label. In that situation the requirements for the protection is more stringent than that for the smoke compartment separation.
This is the floor plan and doors I'm asking about. So all these 20 min doors in a 1 hour barrier are ok? See legend for reference.
In my opinion, the soiled workroom door should be 45 minute door, because that is a hazardous space, and the entire room should be rated. The same goes for the equipment storage room.
However, it looks as though your corridors are fire rated and it has less to do the subdivision of building spaces and creating smoke compartments, so I would think the corridor walls would be 1 hour fire rated barrier per 184.108.40.206. Table 220.127.116.11 dictates doors in 1 hour fire barriers be 45 minute label.
There are some exceptions if the building is fully sprinklered however.
In the LSC, new/existing (Ch 20/21) Ambulatory Health Care occupancy the definition of what is classified as a hazardous area defers to new/existing (Ch 38/39) Business occupancy requirements, ref. 20/21.3.2. In Business the bar is quite a bit lower than the types of rooms/areas we normally see protected as a hazardous area in Health Care and most commonly only includes storage rooms and mechanical rooms containing fuel fired appliances (furnace, boiler, etc.), ref. 38/39.3.2.
Unlike Health Care (Ch18/19), Business (Ch 38/39) does not classify a storage room as a hazardous area based upon room size. However, there is an explanatory comment in Annex A that a storage room containing routine office supplies within a single tenant space is not required to be sprinklered or separated, ref. A38/A18.104.22.168.
However, a bit of a wild card here is the local AHJ could potentially designate another room/use area not prescriptively listed at 38/39.3.2 as a hazardous area, ref. 4.6.1.
I question, from my experience in regulating the fire safety of many of these facilities, that the highlighted walls were required to be fire barriers by the adopted codes at that time. I would have someone familiar with the codes review the design. If not required by code to be fire barriers, there are no requirements for fire door assemblies to protect the openings. In this case, I would document the findings and consult with the building department considering a project to remove door fire rating labels for inspection purposes. Otherwise, the non-required fire doors with fire rating label, because the fire safety feature is obvious to the public including inspectors, will require inspection and maintenance to the fire door requirements of NFPA 101 and NFPA 80.
I am thinking twenty minute is ok
Is this a business all by itself?? Not in an actual hospital.
This post was brought back up in the NFPA Xchange Updates October 4, 2018.
So many differences in opinions with no certain answer.
If the facts are against you, argue the code. If the code is against you, argue the facts. If the code and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.
As a fire inspector I had the same question. Upon posing this question to a fire technoy professor at a local community college who provided me with a copy of a page from the IFTSA text on Fire Inspection and Code Inforcement which stated that fire doors do not have storage, desks which would have conbustables in/on them so the fire door can have a lesser fire rating. I strongly suggest that you contact and consult with the LJHA to find out how they are going to address your question. Just my opinion. Hope this is helpful.
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