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Fire Pump Listing

Question asked by elias.chelala on Mar 22, 2018
Latest reply on Apr 4, 2018 by elias.chelala

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Hello,

We have a question concerning fire pumps in buildings sprinklered throughout.

Referring to NFPA 20 § 4.7.1*:

"Fire pumps shall be dedicated to and listed for fire protection service."

Annex A for 4.7.1 states the following:

"This subsection does not preclude the use of pumps in public and private water supplies that provide water for domestic, process, and fire protection purposes. Such pumps are not fire pumps and are not expected to meet all the requirements of this standard. Such pumps are permitted for fire protection if they are considered reliable by the analysis mandated in Section 4.6. Evaluating the reliability should include at least the levels of supervision and rapid response to problems as are typical in municipal water systems.
If a private development (campus) needs a fire protection pump, this is typically accomplished by installing a dedicated fire pump (in accordance with this standard) in parallel with a domestic pump or as part of a dedicated fire branch/loop off a water supply."

Given the above:

1- Does 4.7.1 strictly imply that fire pumps used for fire fighting purposes shall be UL listed?

2- Can the fire pumps in sprinklered buildings be based on European Norm EN 12845 (Fixed firefighting systems. Automatic sprinkler systems. Design, installation and maintenance) instead of UL listing?

3- Annex A for paragraph 4.7.1 states that pumps used in private water service can be used for fire fighting. Doesn't this suggest then that any pump can be used for fire-fighting (listed or not), by solely satisfying the requirements of NFPA 20 § 4.6?

4- From the same Annex, "such pumps are not expected to meet all the requirements of this standard."; does this mean that pumps used in supplying water for the sprinklers system do not need to fully comply with NFPA 20?

Thank you for your answers.

Best Regards,

jshapiro

Apr 3, 2018 10:51 AM

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Elias,

Unfortunately this is not a question I can answer for you. You will need to speak with the authority that is responsible for enforcing the applicable codes and standards. The use of EN 12845 would need to be considered under the equivalency clause in section 1.5 of NFPA 20:

1.5 Equivalency

Nothing in this standard is intended to prevent the use of systems, methods, or devices of equivalent or superior quality, strength, fire resistance, effectiveness, durability, and safety over those prescribed by this standard.

1.5.1 Technical documentation shall be submitted to the authority having jurisdiction to demonstrate equivalency.

1.5.2 The system, method, or device shall be approved for the intended purpose by the authority having jurisdiction.

Essentially, this allows you to deviate from the prescriptive requirements of the code as long as you can prove that the level of safety is not compromised and the authority having jurisdiction approves.

Important Notice: Any opinion expressed in this correspondence is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services.

Janna Shapiro

Fire Protection Engineer

NFPA

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18 Replies

chiefns830 Mar 22, 2018 10:52 AM
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From NFPA-20 (2016):

4.7 Pumps, Drivers, and Controllers.
4.7.1* Fire pumps shall be dedicated to and listed for fire
protection service.

If the fire pump is being used in the United States, it would have to be listed by a listing agency that is valid in the United States. We call them a "NRTL" (Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory). Wikipedia gives a pretty good definition of a NRTL.
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- elias.chelala @ chiefns830 on Mar 22, 2018 11:09 AM
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  Hello Nick, thank you for your feedback.
  
  I forgot to mention that the buildings in question are not located in the United States, but in a country where the life safety codes applied are either the NFPA or the European Norms (client choice).
  Will this affect your answer or it still applies?
  
  Thank you!
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  - chiefns830 @ elias.chelala on Mar 22, 2018 11:19 AM
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    I'm sorry I can't possibly answer your question. You must first determine what codes will apply to your project.
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    - elias.chelala @ chiefns830 on Mar 22, 2018 12:03 PM
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      Hello again,
      
      Currently this project is designed based on NFPA 101 (2015).
      
      Thank you!
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jpaolb Mar 22, 2018 7:10 PM
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Hello!
In our country (Colombia) some customers consult with companies that insure their assets. If the insurance company requires you to have a UL listed equipment to insure your assets, you must do so. If it requires that you have equipment that complies with NFPA 20, it does not necessarily have to be listed and it can be a nationally manufactured equipment that is approved by a national entity.
I hope to be of help with your question.
Apologize for my English. Google translator was my mediator.
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elias.chelala Mar 23, 2018 2:50 AM
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Thank you Paolo for your precious input on my question.

What I can deduct so far based on everyone's feedback is that fire pumps in our country does not need to be UL listed.
However we have no NRTL in our country that deal with fire pumps, does this mean that we can install just any fire pump as long as it satisfies the requirements of NFPA 20 section 4.6? Such pump most likely will not be fully compliant with all the requirements of NFPA 20, does this mean that the building will not be compliant with NFPA 101 (which requires sprinklers to be based on NFPA 13, and NFPA 13 requires fire pumps to comply with NFPA 20)?

We really require confirmation from NFPA that, in our case, we can safely install fire pumps designed in accordance with European Norms (EN 12845) without facing fire code non-conformities.

Note: there is no such thing in our country as an "authority having jurisdiction" in the sense intended by NFPA. There is only a national decree requiring certain buildings to comply with any international fire standard (american or european).

Thank you!
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chiefns830 Mar 23, 2018 11:36 PM
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I'm going to guess that you are located in Lebanon. UL does have an office in Turkey. ETL has an office in Cyprus. You can call around and ask if they are willing to come and do a "field evaluation" to list your motor for fire pump use. Maybe they would do that (I have no idea of the cost). Then you would comply with NFPA 20, and you would be able to move forward with confidence!

If that strategy doesn't work, you can direct your client that they need to purchase a different motor - one that is already listed for fire pump use, as required by NFPA 20.
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jshapiro Mar 26, 2018 2:30 PM
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1. The term "listed" as used by NFPA does not mean UL listed. Please refer to the definition of listed and the associated annex material (explanatory only) found in 3.2.3 of NFPA 20 (2013):
  
  3.2.3*Listed. Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.
  A.3.2.3 Listed. The means for identifying listed equipment may vary for each organization concerned with product evaluation; some organizations do not recognize equipment as listed unless it is also labeled. The authority having jurisdiction should utilize the system employed by the listing organization to identify a listed product.
2. This will depend on the applicable local codes/standards.
1. This paragraph is not stating that any pump can be used as a dedicated fire pump. If there are pumps that are part of the water supply system (meaning part of the public or private water supply system that is serving the building), then you are not required to trace your water system all the way back to these pumps and ensure that they comply with NFPA 20. You need to evaluate your water supply and ensure that it is reliable in accordance with 4.6, so if you have pumps in your water supply this will be included as part of the evaluation. If you have a pump in your building that is intended to serve the fire protection system, it must comply with NFPA 20 (if that is the standard being used), and it must be dedicated to and listed for fire protection service.
1. Again, if there are pumps in the public or private water supply system that serve your building (including the sprinkler system), you do not need to ensure that they comply with NFPA 20. NFPA 20 only applies if you are installing a dedicated fire pump within your building(s).
1. Again, this will depend on the applicable local codes/standards. If you are required to comply with NFPA 101, this means that you must meet the requirements of NFPA 13 for sprinkler systems and therefore NFPA 20 for fire pumps.
Important Notice: Any opinion expressed in this correspondence is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services.

Janna Shapiro
Fire Protection Engineer
NFPA
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- elias.chelala @ jshapiro on Apr 3, 2018 2:00 AM
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  Dear Mrs Janna,
  
  Thank you for the detailed reply.
  
  The issue we are facing is more about the way to apply the NFPA standards on a national scale, rather than it being about a single project.
  We currently don't have an NRTL specified in Fire Pumps certification, and there are no applicable local codes/standards to guide us.
  There is only national decree requiring new building compliance with NFPA or European Fire Codes.
  
  Based on the above, would fire pumps designed in accordance with European norm EN12845, and especially those who satisfy the requirements of Reliability in NFPA 20 § 4.6, be acceptable or at least not be against NFPA 101?
  I know you don't have the authority to give approval or not, but based on your better understanding of the NFPA codes, do you think it would work? Or are we simply forced to order UL (or other US listed) fire pumps to settle the matter?
  
  Thank you again for your support.
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  - chiefns830 @ elias.chelala on Apr 3, 2018 9:23 AM
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    You seem to keep asking the same question over and over again, that I believe was already answered:
    
    "If you are required to comply with NFPA 101, this means that you must meet the requirements of NFPA 13 for sprinkler systems and therefore NFPA 20 for fire pumps."
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    - elias.chelala @ chiefns830 on Apr 4, 2018 1:33 AM
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      Dear Mr. Sasso,
      
      Thank you for taking the time to read our question and contribute in the discussion.
      
      I'm sorry if I felt repetitive, but given the complexity of our situation, I needed to double check and tackle the issue from all possible angles.
      
      For the time being, we will continue to apply the equivalency rule on a project to project basis, hoping that one day we will have a local code that clearly dictates how to proceed.
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      - chiefns830 @ elias.chelala on Apr 4, 2018 8:58 AM
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        The "equivalency rule" as you call it is seldom used because it involves obtaining test reports (usually prepared by an engineering firm or some other independent third party). It sounds simple, but these type of test reports are not always so easy to obtain, and can be very costly. Then - someone has to take it upon themselves to evaluate those reports and put their reputation on the line - IF they were to accept them as evidence. Not to sound repetitive on my part, but I think you already have a solution: simply use a motor that has the proper listing, and complies with NFPA 20 (without compromise).
        
        Choosing to use a motor based on the European Norm EN 12845 would not be (in and of itself) deemed as "equivalent." In this case since we are talking about a single motor, it would probably be similar to obtaining a field listing, as I discussed earlier.
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        elias.chelala @ chiefns830 on Apr 4, 2018 9:13 AM
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        I can see where you're coming from.
        Believe it or not, we do share your same opinion! It is for sure better and simpler to acquire listed and code compliant fire pumps and systems. It certainly makes our job much easier.
        The national civil defense (the only authority remotely compatible to be an AHJ in terms of NFPA definition) are occasionally consulted regarding deviation from the code, and their fire safety specialists evaluate the documents and take responsibility.
        We are not able to impose on the client/owner to pay big money on the listed fire pumps; more often than not, they opt for the cheaper European alternative, and there begins our struggle to convince them to do otherwise.
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  - jshapiro @ elias.chelala on Apr 3, 2018 10:51 AM
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    Elias,
    
    Unfortunately this is not a question I can answer for you. You will need to speak with the authority that is responsible for enforcing the applicable codes and standards. The use of EN 12845 would need to be considered under the equivalency clause in section 1.5 of NFPA 20:
    
    1.5 Equivalency
    Nothing in this standard is intended to prevent the use of systems, methods, or devices of equivalent or superior quality, strength, fire resistance, effectiveness, durability, and safety over those prescribed by this standard.
    1.5.1 Technical documentation shall be submitted to the authority having jurisdiction to demonstrate equivalency.
    1.5.2 The system, method, or device shall be approved for the intended purpose by the authority having jurisdiction.
    
    Essentially, this allows you to deviate from the prescriptive requirements of the code as long as you can prove that the level of safety is not compromised and the authority having jurisdiction approves.
    
    Important Notice: Any opinion expressed in this correspondence is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services.
    
    Janna Shapiro
    Fire Protection Engineer
    NFPA
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    - elias.chelala @ jshapiro on Apr 4, 2018 1:28 AM
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      Dear Mrs. Janna,
      
      Thank you for all your support.
      
      Section 1.5 was actually our method of handling this issue so far.
      
      We tried to find a more elegant and code-oriented solution that is applicable nationwide instead of project by project, but it is indeed difficult to do so when not applying NFPA in the united states.
      For the time being we will continue to apply the equivalency rule.
      
      I thank you for your time and wish you all the best!
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chiefns830 Mar 26, 2018 4:57 PM
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I agree with Janna Shapiro!

Another point - there is a new section in the 2017 NEC that specifically deals with "the listing." Remember - a pump is an electric motor so NEC may also apply to your situation (I don't know what specific codes you are charged with regulating). So if it is a pump dedicated to fire service then it has to be listed as such, but the listing doesn't necessarily have to be specific to UL:

"110.3(C) Listing. Product testing, evaluation, and listing (product
certification) shall be performed by recognized qualified elec‐
trical testing laboratories and shall be in accordance with appli‐
cable product standards recognized as achieving equivalent
and effective safety for equipment installed to comply with this
Code.

Informational Note: The Occupational Safety and Health
Administration (OSHA) recognizes qualified electrical testing
laboratories that perform evaluations, testing, and certification
of certain products to ensure that they meet the requirements of
both the construction and general industry OSHA electrical
standards. If the listing (product certification) is done under a
qualified electrical testing laboratory program, this listing mark
signifies that the tested and certified product complies with the
requirements of one or more appropriate product safety test
standards."
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kristofer.klefbohm Mar 29, 2018 2:12 AM
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Have you contacted the fire pump suppliers? For example KSB has FM approved pumps, wouldn't that work? And Wilo has pumps with a certificate that they fulfills EN12845.
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- elias.chelala @ kristofer.klefbohm on Apr 3, 2018 2:06 AM
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  Dear Mr. Klefbohm,
  
  We can easily acquire the stock available Wilo fire pumps which are designed in accordance with EN12845, but such pumps are not "listed" in the way intended by NFPA.
  We have no NRTL that certify fire pumps, nor do we have local codes that require certain fire pumps. We are only required to comply with NFPA 101, as abstract at that might appear.
  
  Also the pumps might not be fully compliant with NFPA 20 requirements, but they will be reliable and able to satisfy the flow and head requirements, but we somehow aren't able to get confirmation that we can use them.
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