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hot Tube installation

Question asked by homevisionin on Oct 8, 2019
Latest reply on Oct 14, 2019 by homevisionin

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I installed an outdoor hot tub about a week ago, the outside of the tub is plastic

we poured a concrete slab with rebar since the hot tub is made out of plastic all surroundings of the hot tub are made out of plastic the control are plastic

680.26 (A) Performance Equipotential bonding is intended to reduce voltage gradients in the area around permanently installed pools

the manufacturer's manual does not specify that it needs to be tied to an equipotential bonding grid

# hot tub has to be bonded to the Equipotential bonding grid? Yes or NO #

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OWNERS-MANUAL-DOMESTIC-ENGLISH-CO-PU2-MYLIFE-378116-REV-I.pdf1.2 MB

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chiefns830 Oct 8, 2019 7:34 PM
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Ahhhh yes...here it is:

"PERMANENTLY HARD WIRED: All 240 volt operations wiring must be permanently hard wired, installed in grounded conduit and installed in compliance with the National Electrical Code and all local codes."

Most manufacturers always put that (or similar) "disclaimer" somewhere in the instructions. It is always easier to do the research first, and the installation last. But I understand that sometimes human nature works in reverse and the installation is done first, with the research being done last.

Ask your inspector if you can chip out the concrete, expose the rebar, make the required bonding connection, obtain an electrical inspection, and then repair the concrete.
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- homevisionin @ chiefns830 on Oct 14, 2019 2:24 PM
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  I put a 10 ft grounding bar tied to the grid where there's a piece of it outside of the concrete just in case I got this answer back the reason is that there was no metal Parts on the outside but fiberglass surrounding the whole hot tub the only metal part is the heater for the hot tub
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chiefns830 Oct 8, 2019 7:39 PM
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You are also showing an installation document based on the 1987 NEC (32 years out of date). So I'm thinking someone bought a used hot tub. What is the NEC that is in effect (now) for your jurisdiction?
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chiefns830 Oct 8, 2019 7:45 PM
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Page 10 shows an equipment ground terminal bar on the outside of the system control box, which indicates to me that the manufacturer intended that all metal parts within 5-feet need to be bonded.
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rcramereleceng Oct 9, 2019 11:02 AM
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All of the Metal parts of the Hot Tub (behind the Equipment Access Cover) are inter-connected. I am not convinced however, that the exposed Ground Bar of the Control Box is connected to anything unless the Control Box is made of metal (not Fiberglass - the rounded corners of the Control Box depiction are more indicative of Fiberglass Enclosures).

My opinion: if the Rebar for the Hot Tub is not exposed anywhere, no connection required. There is no structural steel installed to support the Hot Tub - it's self supported. Rebar for In-Ground Pools is different, this aspect I don't know about. The Hot Tub is made of plastic, non-conductive, not metal.

When a Circuit Breaker Box is mounted in a non-attached Garage, there must be a Ground Rod installed there and connected to the Main CB Box Ground Bar (Power Feed) which has a connection to its Ground Rod (the same goes for Barns). I'll guarantee you this - the Rebar in the Garage floor IS NOT bonded - anywhere - to each other nor to any external connection point.

The GFCI Load Center for the Hot Tub (installed nearby), must have its own Ground Rod connected to its Ground Bar and the exposed Ground Bar of the Hot Tub Control Box must have its own Ground Rod as well. One Ground Rod for both the Load Center and Hot Tub Control Box Ground Bar may be shared if there is an exception qualification. The Ground Rods are not shown in the Manual - even for the "Home Breaker Panel".
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chiefns830 Oct 9, 2019 12:49 PM
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Robert Cramer, that isn't correct. It is an outdoor hot tub. 2017 NEC 680.42 kicks in the same requirements as a pool.

So he would still need to comply with "Perimeter Surfaces" if 2017 NEC 680.26(A) doesn't come into play, then 2017 NEC 680.26(B) does. Either way you slice it, he needs to pick up the rebar.

My advice is still -
Ask the inspector if you can chip out the concrete, expose the rebar, make the required bonding connection, obtain an electrical inspection, and then repair the concrete.
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rcramereleceng Oct 10, 2019 9:55 AM
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Raheem,
I would follow Nick's suggestion as a "sure fire" solution to this issue where if he was the Inspector; that is what he would consider as acceptable due to the circumstances.

There are no apparent Exceptions for (but not limited to):
   * Packaged / Self-Contained (a factory-fabricated unit)
   * Portable (installed on its own accord onto a platform, I.e. not encased by)
   * Above Ground
   * No Structural Steel
   * No exposed conductive parts (likely to become energized)

Even though your question pertains to NEC 680.26 where (B) explains; " … shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes." In other words (for this application), the GFCI Load Center, the Hot Tub Control Box or the Ground Rod. So you can chip away at the Concrete to expose the Rebar, get it inspected and repair it. I am still unclear as to "where" you are bonding to?

This is how I came to my opinion. Personally, I'd be more concerned with Lightning.
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chiefns830 Oct 10, 2019 11:40 AM
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Don't rely on me, I'm not the AHJ ...for wherever we are talking about. Call and ask them, they will more than likely want to work it out.

RC, all metal gets bonded to that bar on the outside of the control box.

Yes, there is a grounding connection at the bar that cannot be avoided. But what the code is referring to "… shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes" would be if he took a #8 bonding conductor BACK to a panelboard....

There is also a great, new requirement in 2017 NEC (thanks Keith) Article 250.52(B)(3). We don't want to turn pool or spa bonding into what could be construed as "an electrode." It is prohibited.
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charned Oct 10, 2019 12:06 PM
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I would agree with asking the AHJ but I would also go and check out 680.42(B) for the equipotential bonding for outdoor spas and hot tubs.
It states that equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces in accordance with 680.26(B)(2) shall not be required to be provided for spas and hot tubs where all of the following conditions apply:
   1) The spa or hot tub shall be listed, labeled, and identified as a self-contained spa for above ground use.
   2) The spa or hot tub shall not be identified as suitable only for indoor use.
   3) The installation shall be in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and shall be located on or above grade.
   4) The top rim of the spa or hot tub shall be at least 710 mm (28 in.) above all perimeter surfaces that are within 760 mm (30 in.), measured horizontally from the spa or hot tub. The height of nonconductive external steps for entry to or exit from the self-contained spa shall not be used to reduce or increase this rim height measurement.

Hope this helps.
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chiefns830 Oct 10, 2019 2:22 PM
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Ahhh, great point, Charles! But given that he is using a 32-year old spa, I still think 680.26(B)(3) or 680.26(B)(7) could apply here. Maybe he should have bonded the reinforcing bar for the sake of it being reinforcing bar, and not necessarily for the sake of "perimeter surfaces." I would not allow rebar to be un-bonded because even small voltage gradients surrounding the spa and/or small transfer of current could have a detrimental effect on certain people.
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- homevisionin @ chiefns830 on Oct 14, 2019 2:27 PM
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  The age of the Spa's not 32 years old maybe the design is about 32 but the spine is brand new
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charned Oct 10, 2019 2:43 PM
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Yes Nick, I agree with you, best practice would be to do it, since code is more of the bare minimum. Better safe than sorry, especially since you are dealing with a body of water.
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